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Post by Immortal1 on Nov 8, 2013 18:32:11 GMT -5
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Post by Mathieas on Nov 8, 2013 21:12:34 GMT -5
When was there ever a level playing field for anything? Even in primitive times some guy had a bigger stick so he was the one who got his pick of mates.
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Post by Milowent on Nov 8, 2013 23:41:27 GMT -5
funny how these terms are still bandied about. it doesn't give me pause for a minute to consider netflix a viable way to watch TV shows, with so many TV readily connected to the internet for watching stuff.
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Post by Mathieas on Nov 9, 2013 0:48:15 GMT -5
The Gathering Storm in your living roomI'm just going to put that right there 'cause some smart fella predicted TV over IP would be a big deal. Unfortunately, everyone who was making web content largely got shut out of the conversation because traditional TV people realized that if it is on a TV and looks like a TV show it can be made like a TV show. I still believe there is a difference between webseries as a story mechanism (see Lizzy Bennet Diaries) and the web as a distribution model (Netflix). Wow, I have not thought about these things in years.
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Post by Immortal1 on Nov 9, 2013 18:33:07 GMT -5
Mathieas Your article is exactly what I was referring to. If the Guild launched today in what world can it compete with these big studio series and more importantly, where? I have serious doubts it would even find traction on today's YouTube. YouTube clearly does not foster an environment where that kind of show can succeed today. As for the "participatory drama" shows that are unique to the web, they just don't scale. Until someone comes up with a metric that engaged views are more valuable than passive views, the money is always going to gravitate toward whatever has the most views and that's always going to be the lean back type show. I was talking to this guy at work after the new GTA came out about how it sold like a billion dollars the first day or whatever. I said, "next thing you know they'll make a movie out of it." And he responded "Why? It's already like a movie that you can actually play." That's the audience that is being competed for today. That's why movies are starting to look more like video games. It's why Star Trek Into Darkness was turned into an action movie and why Superman destroyed three quarters of Metropolis. So the question, IMO, is where is the path of least resistance for the indie creator? Is it creating the next LG15? The next Guild? The next LBD? I'm not sure it is. I think maybe it's creating a participatory drama that somehow duplicates the GTA-like experience, if that's even possible.
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Post by Terryfic on Nov 9, 2013 22:17:40 GMT -5
I actually think the Guild is a poor example as it would probably be even more successful if launched today. YouTube audiences are much more use to watching series via the web these days then they were 6 years ago. Plus a niche show about video games is perfect for YouTube - just look at Video Game High School.
Even with big studios moving in I don't think that it makes it significantly more difficult for small productions to get noticed. Videos still become popular primarily though social networks (twitter, reddit, etc) and that word of mouth isn't something that studios can reliable purchase.
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Post by Lisa on Nov 10, 2013 20:26:04 GMT -5
Exactly, I think it's been tried and tested but there's really no way to force something to "go viral." It's a phenomenon. And we've seen over the years that anything can do it - from a large studio production to a five second Vine shot with an iPhone.
I guess I'm just not sure the series format works all that well online, for where we are currently as a society anyway. I think even if you make a series, the individual videos need to be able to stand up on their own to increase their sharing power, and that comes down to talent which can be found in indies as much as in big productions, maybe even more so as there is a much more flexible creative process.
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Post by Milowent on Nov 11, 2013 11:53:11 GMT -5
I actually think the Guild is a poor example as it would probably be even more successful if launched today. YouTube audiences are much more use to watching series via the web these days then they were 6 years ago. Plus a niche show about video games is perfect for YouTube - just look at Video Game High School. I don't know. I'm not really following "webseries" per se anymore, but I sorta sensed that's the way it is more generally - no one is paying much attention to them as a genre. There has never been a "Guild 2", and if there was a viable market for it, you'd think it would happen by now. Internet is merging with TV, but the movement coming more from the TV side than internet side, don't you think? People watch TV using DVRs all the time, having the watch a show when its "live" is the exception now, not the norm. TV shows can be more complex now since viewers can follow difficult storylines by not missing any episodes (and using the internet to confirm plotlines if necessary), and binge-viewing is easy to do. If a show is only available online, people can watch it on their TVs, its becoming easier to do that. The YouTube music awards that were recently held were only streamed only, but that fact wasn't a big deal as it would have been in 2007.
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Post by Mathieas on Nov 11, 2013 17:45:22 GMT -5
I still think there is a place for webseries. The success of Bernie Su's Lizzy Bennett Diaries proves that. I think there are two 'best uses' for webseries. The first, short immerse stories like LG15 or Lizzie Bennett that rely not so much on production values or even story and more on just a person. Another example is the recently completed "Sexy Nerd Girl", which I really liked but never got much traction.
The second use is for lack of a better term, as a minor league for TV. Several web series have gone on to become TV projects and several people who started out making web have moved to TV, not so much the people we used to call the bubble, but other people. The less it looks like TV the better.
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Post by Terryfic on Nov 11, 2013 20:04:31 GMT -5
I actually think the Guild is a poor example as it would probably be even more successful if launched today. YouTube audiences are much more use to watching series via the web these days then they were 6 years ago. Plus a niche show about video games is perfect for YouTube - just look at Video Game High School. I don't know. I'm not really following "webseries" per se anymore, but I sorta sensed that's the way it is more generally - no one is paying much attention to them as a genre. There has never been a "Guild 2", and if there was a viable market for it, you'd think it would happen by now. The Guild ran for 6 seasons and only just ended this year. I think that's pretty good. But I do agree with you, and have always said, that video via the internet would never really take off until people could watch it on big screens sitting on their comfy couches. Although, watching shows "live" is still very much the norm, less than 15% of tv viewing is time shifted and everyone knows that overall tv viewing is declining ( although not as fast as people imply). I think my point is that YouTube is still a very viable medium. One that a fair number of people are making their living off of.
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Post by Immortal1 on Nov 12, 2013 12:31:47 GMT -5
Even the most popular YT channels still need Kickstarter to launch shows (i.e. VGHS)- that's not a model that can be sustained long term.
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Post by Immortal1 on Nov 12, 2013 20:36:44 GMT -5
"Series without advertisers may just have to be patient. It’s still early days for Web-based originals, and the Web has proved a way to build a long-tail audience. Just like binge-watching gave “Arrested Development” a second life, many Web originals might find viewers (and advertisers) if they can just wait." digiday.com/platforms/tons-original-web-series-enough-brands/
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